Was Stephanie gulity?

It is on this page, I will post Stephanie's words along with the evidence against her. Stephanie has quite a little cult following on the message boards. She has been stupid enough to answer questions at times from private messages.  Her words have been confirmed by her Sister in law, and the accounts they came from were confirmed as well.  She piles  her lies on top of lies.  She was just as guilty if not more than the rest, and she turned on her family to save herself, and she continues to disrespect Sylvia with her lies.

The following story was posted on a myspace page dedicated to Sylvia.  I am going to debunk the lies in this statement as I know them.Story by Stephanie Baniszewski

"Silly & Me"

Stephanie: “Sylvia Likens and I went to kindergarten and, maybe, a few weeks of the 1st grade together in 1956 at Indianapolis Public School #3. Time is such a relative thing when you're 5-7 years old. I also, went to school with two boys Freddy Wright and Douglas Weaver. We were all good friends. Sylvia and I were in kindergarten together with them. That is when we promised each other that we would be the "bestest friends forever." We would go over to Dougie's house to play. We used to pretend that we were married. Dougie "Wuggy" was my husband and Freddy "Weddy" was hers. I called her "Silly" and she called be "Stessy" because she had trouble saying the "ph" sound. I would tell her that "You are so silly, Silly." Dougie's Mom would make us sandwiches, cookies and milk. We would make our "husbands" lunch, kiss (yuck) them goodbye and send them to work, which amounted to them playing with their cars and trucks in the dirt and building things. We would "stay home" to clean house, talk about our babies, and pretend we were grown up.”

Webmaster: By all accounts, Stephanie and Sylvia going to kindergarten together is a lie. There will be another post here where someone questions Stephanie about this.  She claims that there is a photo of the kindergarten class with Sylvia's name on it.  This photo has never materialized.  It has been debated several times as to whether or not the Likens family knew the Baniszewski family before 1965.  She also claims that the prosecutor knew about this and chose to have everyone lie about it.  There is an article that I have read with  Lester, and his language was extremely confusing on this issue.You can read it at the following link. http://freepdfhosting.com/4f470bcb9f.pdf   Some people that read the article  thought he was referring to getting acquainted with Gertrude before 1965.  I did not think that was what he was saying.  I think he is saying that he got acquainted with Gertrude through a former neighbor. You can decide for yourself reading the article.
There is also a relative of the Likens that indicates that Lester knew Gertrude before 1965, but there is bad blood there. I am hesitant to believe it.
If you ask me, I think that it would have made the Likens look better and the Baniszewski's look worse if they were old friends, so I can't imagine why Leroy New would not bring it out at trial.   I will update this if there is any info, but right now I can not say it is an absolute lie, but I am starting to believe that it is.
The following is Lester's testimony on this issue:
A. We talked that evening and when I got hold of my wife we had another discussion. I wanted to see if it was alright with my wife and we all talked awhile and we asked the girls and everything and we all decided with the other children and everything it would he an environment for them to be with other children.

Q. Who cared for the children while your wife was at the police court or in jail, if you know?

A. They went over to a neighbor's - some kids they knew when we lived there. That is how they got acquainted with the Baniszewskis'.

Q. Who took care of the children?

A. Well, the same night she was in jail, I was in Lebanon. Evidently they stayed at 109 Euclid, as far as I know.

Q. With whom?

A. With themselves.

Q. How long did they stay there by themselves, if know?

A. As far as I know, over night.

Q. Then you arrived in Indianapolis and discovered your wife was in jail, had been arrested, and no one was looking after the children. You never saw Mrs. Baniszewski before and after one conference with her and a conference with your wife, you agreed to let your children stay with total strangers, with Mrs. Baniszewski?

A. After two conferences. I had a conference and me and my wife, that is right.




Stephanie: Before Dougie moved away, his parents gave him a huge birthday party. It seemed like they had the whole class there. We played all kinds of games and Mr. And Mrs. Weaver had prizes. No one went home without one. I think, if I remember correctly, "Silly" won the Pin the Tail on the Donkey game with a little help from me. (The closer she got the more I would say "Ooo,oo,oo,yes.") I gave Dougie a model car as a present.Although "Silly" was a year older than we were, she was the same size as I was. We looked so much alike. We used to pretend that we were twins. She told me that she didn't do well on some test so they were having her repeat kindergarten. We loved singing songs together: "You are my Sunshine"; "This Old Man Came Rolling Home" (Knick Knack Paddy Wack); "Found a Peanut"; "Playmate," etc. So many songs. "You Are My Sunshine" was our song.
You are my sunshine my only sunshine.You make me happy when skies are gray.You'll never know (Silly/Stessy),How much I love you.Please don't take the sunshine away.Over and over we would sing it.
Whenever I had an epileptic seizure, it was "Silly" who held and comforted me. I could never remember that I had one. I only saw the reactions from the other kids, especially the boys. Rolling on the floor, making funny noises and faces. I remember asking Silly what they were doing and her saying they were just being stupid boys. I also remember the teacher scolding them to stop. She sat everyone down and explained to them that it wasn't a nice thing to make fun of someone who was sick. The odd thing was, I didn't realize at the time that she was talking about me or that my classmates were making fun of me. The teacher would get my little nap rug out, and I would lay down with my head in Silly's lap, while she held a cool damp cloth on my head. I would fall asleep.
The following is a response from Stephanie when someone asked her questions about this post.  Keep in mind that these all Stephanie’s words were confirmed by Stephanie’s sister in law.

Stephanie: Don't believe everything you read. Up until a couple of years ago, I never read any books, newspaper articules or knew what testimony was given at that time. I have done so recently. I couldn't believe the lies that were told. What happened to Sylvia was bad enough. I still grieve for her, and I will be very glad to see her again, because that summer she accepted Jesus as her Savior.

Webmaster: This part is true.  John Dean's book pointed this out. Sylvia by all accounts became “saved” in 1965.  I also don’t see why John Dean would lie about Stephanie , if anything, I thought he was very kind to Stephanie in the book.

Stephanie: If you really cared about Sylvia, then you would be out there trying to help someone. I would start by trying to help the teenage prostitutes out on the streets. They need someone to care about them, or are you a hypocrite. I know Sylvia would appreciate some kind of positive focus on the young women out there who, for whatever, reason have found themselves in that sad and degrading profession.

Webmaster: This is the worst part of Stephanie’s words.  Why would she suggest that if you cared about Sylvia you should help teenage prostitutes.  Why wouldn't she suggest you help abused teenagers.  Stephanie is calling Sylvia a prostitute, and she does not even take this back when she gets a chance to later.

Stephanie:  Your behavior, along with others is no better than my mother's. I'm amazed people don't realize that they are doing the same sort of things my mother did. I know where my baby brother is and I'm thankful to God that he let us find him again. As I said--you know nothing. Coy Hubbard never hurt Sylvia and I told the prosecutor, who eventually realized that that was so. I said it then and I'll say it forever, he was innocent. I'm so tired of liars. Yes, I know he did get into trouble later and that can happen to anyone.

Webmaster: This is an out and out lie.  Coy did hurt Sylvia and she was present several times when it happened.  The following quote is a quote from John Dean’s book:
Hubbard admitted: "I hit her with my hand... I do not remember why... but Mrs.Wright had spanked her.... I flipped Sylvia on the floor; I think I did this because of something she said about Stephanie... I burned Sylvia on the arm with a match.... Last week I was at the house and I took Sylvia down two or three steps of the basement stairs and put her arms behind her and pushed her the rest of the way down."  John Dean House of Evil

Web Master: The above is an instance where Coy hurt Sylvia right in front of Stephanie.  She is lying.  I also want to add that her grouping this person with Gertrude is making light of the horrible things she and her mother did.  One who does not believe Stephanie’s lies is not equivalent to a convicted killer or one of her assistants.  

Stephanie: P.S. I had no big part. I was exonerated. Jenny, along with several other witnesses, testified on my behalf and told the grand jury what I did for Sylvia, including asking Mr. Hubbard to call the police for me, twice. I thought they didn't come, but they came before I got home and my mother intercepted them. It's a long story. You know nothing about what happened, and from what I've read out there, no one does.                                 

Webmaster: This is where the lies get thick.  Stephanie was not exonerated, because she was not tried for a crime.  Coy Hubbard admitted to hurting Sylvia on the stand at Gertrudes second trial.  There is also a lot of testimony, I will post on this page, about what both Stephanie and Coy did. Gertrude makes a claim that Coy protected Stephanie at the trial.  In this document.   Also  Jenny did not testify for Stephanie.  She testified on behalf of the state against Stephanie.  I will post the article that clarifies this as soon as I find it.  There is no verification of Stephanie or Mr. Hubbard calling the police.  It is not in the trial transcripts or the book by John Dean.  He was at trial every single day.  

Webmaster: No big part:  I am going to list the big part that Stephanie had here on this page from John Dean’s house of evil below:
When Stephanie got home, she had it out with Sylvia. When Sylvia admitted planting the rumour, Stephanie slugged her in the chin. Sylvia , in tears, apologized.  John Dean House of Evil This is the first time Stephanie hit Sylvia

When Coy Hubbard heard about the aspersions on his beloved's purity, he flew into a rage. He slapped Sylvia, banged her head against the wall and gave her a flip, judo style, onto her back on the floor. He never forgave her.  John Dean House of Evil...this is the first time Coy hit Sylvia in front of Stephanie who claims he never hurt her.

The children practiced judo flips on one another; the mattress on the floor provided a handy landing mat.  Paula, Stephanie, Coy and Sylvia were playing the game one day; and when Coy flipped Sylvia, he missed the mattress. That was fun, and it set the pattern from then on. Coy later found the judo flip to be an effective form of punishment when he believed Sylvia had questioned Stephanie's virtue.  John Dean House of Evil the second time Coy hurt Sylvia in front of Stephanie.

Fights with Judy Duke and Paula and Stephanie had similar origin and encouragement. A pretty 12 year old blonde with a lagging I.Q., Judy slapped and kicked Sylvia when told by Mrs. Wright that Sylvia had called her a bitch.   John Dean House of Evil...Fights with Stephanie who did not have a big part.

Sylvia's supposedly best friend in the house, Stephanie, also went along with the rumour-fed mob psychology. Told by just about everyone that Sylvia had been bad, Stephanie took it upon herself to apply the paddle  John Dean House of evil...notice how Stephanie went along with mob mentality and hit Sylvia with a paddle.

No one, not even Johnny, had actually heard Sylvia calling Gertrude a name, but Gertrude said Sylvia did. Stephanie was upset. Her nervous fainting spells were cropping up again. After one hectic day, she sat down at the table, whipped off her glasses, and just cried. " Fighting, fighting!" she sobbed. " That's all we ever do around here ! I wish we'd quit!"

One reason Stephanie felt so bad about it was because she had been in on it. She was thinking about the time Sylvia had come home from school and Gertrude ripped Sylvia's blouse off her to show Stephanie she wearing Stephanie's brassiere. That made Stephanie mad. She pummeled Sylvia seven or eight times, repeating, " What do you want to do that for , Sylvia, why do you do it?" Sylvia just stood there, took it, and cried.

Stephanie was angriest the time she came home from school to find Sylvia nude in the middle of the living room, surrounded by a ring of onlookers including Randy Lepper, Johnny, Gertrude, Jenny and Paula. Sylvia was squatting, with a Pepsi bottle inserted in her vagina. Stephanie rushed to the middle of the room and slapped Sylvia , hard. " Get up to your room Sylvia," she ordered. She had not seen the prelude. She had not seen Gertrude order her to undress, and to spread her legs, and to insert the bottle,  John Dean House of Evil This speaks for itself.

The girl's descent to her dungeon was ceremonious. " Here's how you do it," Gertrude instructed Paula, Stephanie, Johnny , Randy Lepper and Coy Hubbard. With that she gave Sylvia a shove, and she tumbled through the two 90- degree turns to the bottom. Coy Hubbard learned the lesson well. He gripped Sylvia's hands tightly behind her and gave her a quick start with his foot.

Paula also invented some variations. Descending from the second floor, where she had been to the bathroom, Sylvia was met on the stairs by Paula's outstretched foot, and tumbled into the living room. She was met at the bottom by Gertrude. " I hate you! I hate you!" Gertrude would shout. " You're going to get the hell outta my house!"   John Dean House of Evil...Notice how you see that Stephanie was present when Coy was hurting Sylvia.

All the while, Sylvia slowly was starving. She took one meal of donuts and water about October 19. A day or two later, she passed out on the living room floor. Stephanie applied a cold, wet rag to Sylvia's forehead, but she was out for nearly twenty minutes. Stephanie and Johnny helped Sylvia to the mattress in the back bedroom upstairs.  John Dean House of evil...I love how this shows that Stephanie had to have known about the abuse and that “Silly” was in danger.  Stephanie claims that Sylvia hid the abuse from her from her later on in this page, but how can that be so when she saw her faint and saw Gertrude push her down the stairs?

It was decided that Sylvia should have another chance to show her manners in bed. At Gertrude's instructions, Johnny , Coy, and Stephanie tied Sylvia to the bed. " You can't go to the bathroom," Gertrude explained with unchallenged logic, " until you've learned not to wet the bed."

When the others had gone downstairs, Sylvia whispered to Jenny for a glass of water. She drank it and fell asleep. She wet the bed that night. The next morning, she faced the longest--- and last--- weekend of her short life.  John Dean House of Evil...This is my favorite quote because it shows that Stephanie took part in tying Sylvia down...that is a big part to me not to mention the fact that she did this to a dying girl.

Stephanie was crying when Coy Hubbard came over, and Mrs. Wright explained to him that Sylvia had upset her. So he helped the woman apply her macabre discipline.  John Dean House of Evil...do you think this is why Stephanie defends Coy, because he beat and tortured Sylvia in her name???

Others who had beaten Sylvia, he said, included Paula Baniszewski, Stephanie Baniszewski, Marie Baniszewski, Shirley Baniszewski, Anna Siscoe, Judy Duke, Darlene McGuire, Randy Lepper,Mike Monroe, Coy Hubbard and Richard Hobbs. John Dean House of Evil


This is Jenny trying to talk about what role Stephanie had in this murder:

In response to further questioning, she admitted she had gone over her testimony with New and Miss Wessner the day before. "But," she said, "all anybody ever told me was to tell the truth."

Erbecker hit at theme of the alleged "deal" with Stephanie, Jenny said she knew more about what Stephanie had done than she had testified about. "What did you leave out?" Erbecker asked. New objected, and was sustained. Stephanie was not on trial. Erbecker tried several more times, New asked that the jury be excused momentarily; and he asked the judge to admonish Erbecker.  I will tell you that it is stated as a fact that Jenny did not like Stephanie after this happened and blamed her as much as the rest.  John Dean House of evil.
This is a response to the above post...I don’t have much to point out in this one because I think I pretty much covered everything above.
More Lies

I don't like writing to Stephanie, it's impossible to know whether or not she is lying. But I wanted to know why she brought the subject of prostitution into it. So I wrote her a few messages (I don't want to post them word for word, it makes me self-conscious) and this is what she said...

Questioner: If you told Mr. New about Sylvia and you attending kindergarten together, why did you tell him you first met her in the summer of '65 on the stand?

Stephanie: You don't understand what a prosecutor or defense attorney are trying to do with the questions, they ask or don't ask. They are not looking for the truth, but only enough evidence to convict. They do not want conflicting information from their witnesses. At the time I was so angry about what my mother did, that I truly wanted her to get the death penalty. Mr. New had his reasons for not asking me the questions that he asked me before I testified. If he had asked me the questions that he did then, my answers would have jeopardized the case against my mother. My answers would have called in question the testimony of most of his witnesses. I told Mr. New everything about the relationship between my mother and the Likens. Since I couldn't think of any connection between the time we were in kindergarten to the time she came to live with us and what happened, that he asked to just say I met her that July, which I felt awkward doing. As I said, the Likens were old family friends of my mother's. There is an IPS #3 kindergarten class picture out there with me in it and Sylvia's name listed at the bottom because she missed picture day. The I have on Myspace is from when I was at school #3. I still have the original with the school listed. I, also, have my sister Paula's picture from #3. Also, I didn't find out until a few years ago that she was in my 8th grade graduating class at #101, which explains a lot about my mother's actions and what happened to me there.

Webmaster: Many people have made several attempts to locate this photo.  It is not on her myspace and it simply does not exist.  The reason this did not come out was because it is not true, but there are many things that did not come out, because it is widly speculated that Stephanie had a deal.
I then sent her Coy's testimony, and asked her why she would say he is innocent.
A. I did not have to testify. The reason I chose to is because I didn't want my mother getting away with blaming my brother for what happened. I thought Coy would be all right because I thought his father as well as his employer would testify for him. No, there are lots of things that were never made public. I understand the reasons for it, but I wish it was different. Of course, it doesn't help that the files were sealed and made confidential. Even I can't get them, and I tried. As I said, that statment was pre-prepared. Coy was not there on the 25th. I really don't like doing things piecemeal. If you knew what I knew, you'd truly flip. I'm more than willing to let God handle this.  I trusted him since I was 8 years old, and I trust him now. My only duty now is to do the best I can with where I am for him. God promises to show us everything he did for us here. Besides, Silly is and will always be with me. I need to forgive again and again and again.

Webmaster: This is an absolute lie...Stephanie was charged with a crime.  She had to testify regardless, unless she plead the fifth like her boyfriend did.  If she chose silence, she should would have lost her protection from Leroy New and the right to defend herself.  I don’t actually know why she is telling this out and out lie.  I can’t even imagine why she would protect Coy Hubbard.  She did not protect her own family.  It just does not make sense to myself.

Questioner:  And finally, I asked her about the prostitution comments. I asked her why she didn't suggest child abuse.

Stephanie: If you want to honor or keep Sylvia in rememberance, then honor her humanity. She was completely human with all the frailities of the rest of us.

Webmaster:  If Stephanie regretted the use of the word prostitute, why didn't she take it back here??? This is an opportunity for her to say that she used that word by mistake.  I don’t think she used that word by mistake.  I think that Stephanie truly believes Sylvia was a prostitute.  I think she justifies her actions with this in her own mind.  

Webmaster: So then some people might ask...how did Stephanie get away with murder?

This is Gertrude’s lawyer suggesting that Stephanie made a deal:
"Gertrude Baniszewski has no opening statement as to what she will prove," Erbecker began. "It is blatantly obvious," he shouted, quickening the pace, "that the State of Indiana has made a deal with one of the co-defendants." New objected the reference to Stephanie Baniszewski. "Sustained, as to the type of language," Judge Rabb said. John Dean House of Evil

Webmaster: This is what a friend Stephanie was to Sylvia.  She was not showing concern for “friend” just for herself:

Stephanie, heartbroken, was joined by her father as she left the courtroom. "But, Daddy," she sobbed. " I just can't stand to have people think I'd do something like this."  John Dean House of evil

These words below are perhaps the worst yet.  Stephanie proclaims her innocence and Coy Hubbards as well:

I found a conversation on classmates.com that Stephanie has had over several months with the previous mentioned girl. (Apparently, the 14 year old was lying about her name the first time she contacted Stephanie. Her real name is Anna.) I could only find one posting on Stephanie's page from Anna, but there are several postings on Anna's page from Stephanie, regarding Sylvia.
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Stephanie Baniszewski Nov 07 2009 | Everyday Note

Note from Stephanie
Anna, As sweet as you are, you do not need to defend me. I know what happened and what didn't. So, don't frustrate yourself by responding to some of these things. I loved, Sylvia, ever since we were little, and no one can take that away from me. Okay?

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Stephanie Baniszewski Feb 21 2010 | Everyday Note

Note from Stephanie
You are an amazingly sweet hearted person Anna. I always knew that there was a chance that people would believe that I hurt Silly, but it was one I had to take. I didn't want my mother to get away with what she had done. I know I will see both of them again. Unfortunately, the transcripts don't tell the whole story of what our mother was doing to us. I would love to be able to say that my mother was mentally ill or druged out of her mind, but that would be untrue. She knew exactly what she was doing and why. My only regret is that I didn't read the transcripts or newspaper articles at that time. There were so many things written that never happened. I was amazed. I remember talking to my Dad because it bothered me that there would be people who believed I hurt her. I believe what my Dad told me. He said, "The people who don't know you don't matter, the people who know you will know better."

Webmaster:  First of all, people will most believe that Stephanie hurt Sylvia, because she most certainly did.  It is proven through out this page.  Her only regret is that she would be found out.  I love how she does not talk about the loss of her friend only the fact that people will see what she did.
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Stephanie Baniszewski Feb 24 2010 | Everyday Note

Note from Stephanie
She wasn't always downstairs. At one point, my mother told me she didn't want me to hang around her anymore. My mother said she was a bad influence. I thought that was totally ridiculous since we lived in the same house. I told her how did she know that I wouldn't be a good influence on her. However, there was always someone around watching us, so it became difficult to talk. I was at the point that I didn't feel I could trust anyone else in the house, and in some ways not even Silly, because she wasn't telling me the whole truth. Everyone started pretending with me that everything was okay. My internal alarm bells were going off, but I never caught anyone doing anything. It wasn't until the Sunday before that I realized the "nicey nicey" everyone was pretending was a sham.

Webmaster:  I wonder how she thought it was ok when she saw Sylvia get her hair cut, or Johnny punch her.  I wonder how she thought it was ok when she was in the room when Gertrude wrote the note that would free her from abusing Sylvia.  See testimony below.
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Stephanie Baniszewski Feb 25 2010 | Everyday Note

Note from Stephanie
That's just it. She kept telling me everthing was okay, when it wasn't. There was no visible marks, though thing about it later, she was wearing slacks and long sleeves, which I believe she wore so I wouldn't realize how bad things were getting. I used to do the same thing. She didn't want her Dad to know about the things she had been doing. I told her that I wouldn't say anything, but if things got any worse, all bets were off. However, I never got to meet her parents while they were at our house. It seemed I'd always miss them. I felt later that that was by design. I couldn't believe when Oct 5 came that they didn't go with their parents. I had planned to say something to them, even if I ended up getting in trouble for it. I never got the chance. It wasn't until I saw a picture of them in the newspaper, that I realized who they were. The only parent I had met previously, when we were in kindergarten was her Dad.

Webmaster: I am going to post a little piece of testimony here because Stephanie is out and out lying, because Jenny testified to the fact that Stephanie was present at the time of a visit.

Q. I believe you testified earlier there were several visits paid by your parents during the course of time between the date you talked with and took residence with the Baniszewski's and the 26th day of October. Would you remind us, please, how many visits there were by your parents, one or both of them?
A. Eight or ten times.
Q. For what length of time was the average of these visits?
A. A half hour.
Q. And who was present at these visits usually?
A. Sylvia and me and Gertrude and sometimes Paula and Stephanie.
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Stephanie Baniszewski Feb 26 2010 | Everyday Note

Note from Stephanie
You need to realize, Anna, that I didn't get to have the opportunity to listen to all the testimony. I just started reading what was out there a couple of years ago, and boy was I surprised. When testimony is taken in a trial, it is bare minimum. What's out there isn't what I would have testified too. The assumptions and conclusions that people have come to believe, for me never happened. I didn't know they had Coy and I both flipping her all over the place, didn't happen. She and I were the same size and weight. Whenever my friend Steve came over to show my brothers and sisters what he had learned in the classes he was taking. I'd come home and stop the what they were doing because someone always got hurt, including me.

Webmaster: I guess that everyone is lying about Stephanie being in the room when Coy flipped Sylvia including John Dean.
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Stephanie Baniszewski Feb 26 2010 | Everyday Note

Note from Stephanie
I'm not saying she didn't have them. I'm saying that they weren't in places where I could readily see them and she continued to tell me everything was okay, even on the day she received the tatooing. She said nothing to me. I discovered the tatooing by accident, but even then I saw no branding. Until a couple years ago, I didn't even realiz she had that. I had thought that I had reconciled myself to what my mother did, but I just keep finding out about things she did to her or said about me, and each time I do, it's like my heart is broken all over again. It's very hard not to hate her all over again. Just before she died, I forgave her for everything, even the things I didn't know about yet. Now, when I find out something, I have this basket, imaginary at that, and I put those things in there. I tell Jesus to take them because I don't want them. When I forgave, I meant it.

Webmaster: There is no way on gods green earth that Stephanie did not see one of the 150 cigarette burns or her shredded  lips or fingernails. I am so sure she did not see that Sylvia was losing weight or hear her screaming.                                

Below I am going to Post the court testimony against Stephanie...Keep in mind that Stephanie was not on trial, so there is not that much on her.  
Evidence against Stephanie:
Coroner's testimony:
Q. Was there any serum coming from either the cuts or burns?
A. No.
Q. What did that indicate to you, Doctor?
A. That would indicate this body had been washed after it was dead.
Q. Was the hair wet or dry?
A. The hair was damp when I first examined the girl.
Q. What would you estimate the room temperature to have been?
A. Well, I would say it was approximately seventy five degrees, seventy to seventy-five degrees.
Q. Have you an opinion, within a reasonable medical certainty, Doctor, as to the estimated time she died?
A. Yes, sir, I do. Now, you must remember, Mr. New, this is a clinical opinion based on only what I knew at the time about the girl and about bodies in general, the lack of differentiation in temperature between the small extremities, the fingers, and the abdomen, the amount of rigor in the body - settling of blood in the body produces rigor mortis - and I estimated the girl had been dead approximately eight to twelve hours, and this is what I gave in my verdict....
Coroner talking about rigor in determining time of death:

Q. Did this include a careful examination of her head?
A. Yes.
Q. Did it also include the jaw?
A. I tried to look in the mouth. There was rigor in the jaws and I did not want to force them, pry them open. I knew he had ordered a post mortem. I just looked inside the lips...

Continued:
Q. Alright, what kind of examination did you make and what did you first do in connection with that examination?
A. Well, the first thing I did was to look at the face of the victim so that I might identify or recognize her in the event I was asked at some future time to do this. Then I again felt the body for signs of rigidity or rigor mortis and felt various parts of the body for warmth so I could make some estimate what the temperature of the body was, to try and make a conclusion how long the young lady had been dead.
Q. What observation did you make in connection with this examination?
A. The body was in complete rigor, as a matter of fact, when I picked the body up it did not break at the hips, there was pretty complete stiffness. She was a very light person, so this was very possible. Also, I estimated from the differentiation of temperature from the fingers, which would be expected to cool very quickly and come to room temperature, and from the abdomen, which cools rather slowly, they were very near the same, near room temperature.

Webmaster: The testimony above shows two things.  First, that by all accounts, Stephanie was the last to bathe Sylvia.  This means that Stephanie gave Sylvia a bath, once she was dead, to cover up the crime for her family before she turned on them.  I define bathing a dead body as a BIG part in a crime.  Second, that it is quite possible that everyone including Stephanie lied about Sylvia’s time of death.  The coroner stated that the body was in full rigor, and that Sylvia had been dead eight to twelve hours.  He took every single element into account  when he made this decision.  Coroners are very well trained and even with a margin of error of three hours, the time of death can not be off by this many hours.  I simply don’t see how it is possible that Sylvia died when the Baniszewski's said she did. I am not saying that Jenny lied, but I think it is quite possible that she was  confused about Sylvia’s time of death.   Jenny was going through  severe trauma watching Sylvia be tortured for months, and it is not unlike a victim of a crime to mix up facts because of stress or fear.  She also had to re-live the entire thing on the stand.  The time of death mix up, is also further evidence to Stephanie having a deal with Leroy New. Would a prosecutor not be concerned about a girl bathing a dead body? I think that Leroy New was concerned about securing a conviction with only one witness.  Any good prosecutor knows that you have to loose a little to win big.  I he knew that only having Jenny’s testimony was dangerous to the case, so he sacrificed convicting Stephanie to take the rest of the family down.  Do I think that this means that Leroy did not care about the victims in the case?  No.  He took Jenny in after the trial.  I truly believe this man cared a great deal about what happened to Sylvia.  He just did what he had, so that he could pursue the highest level of justice he could.

Webmaster: I don’t really want to go too far with this next quote from Gertrude’s testimony.  I only want to post it because it proves that Gertrude’s lawyer believed that Stephanie made a deal, and that New objected to this, because he was protecting Stephanie:
Q. Is it a fact, that Stephanie committed most of the abuse on Sylvia and that is why she made a deal with the Prosecutor's Office?
MR. NEW: We object.
THE COURT: Objection sustained.
MR. ERBECKER: No further questions.

Webmaster: This next part of the testimony is Marie.  I just want to show that Stephanie witnessed abuse and did nothing.
Q. Who else was down there when John hit her in the basement?
A. Paula.
Q. Alright, anyone else?
A. Stephanie.
Q. Stephanie. You?
A. I was only down there to get a rake.
Q. To get the rake?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, what did Johnny hit her with?
A. His fist.

This shows that Stephanie was present when Paula maliciously cut Sylvia’s hair.  Stephanie made no attempt to stop her.  Why?
Q. Do you know why she cut her hair?

A. Sylvia said she was glad to get her hair cut so she could keep it off her neck.

Q. Did Sylvia ask her to cut it?

A. No.

Q. Do you know whose idea it was to cut her hair?

A. No.

Q. Who was there when it was cut?

A. Jenny, Stephanie -

Q. Anybody else?

A. No.

Q. Did anybody try to keep her from cutting it?

A. No.

Q. What did she say?

A. Paula said she thought she looked better with her hair cut.

Q. Sylvia did not want her to cut it?

A. No, sir.

This is about the famous note that Sylvia wrote, so that everyone could deny responsibility for harming Sylvia.  It is not surprising that innocent little Stephanie was there when this note was written.

Q. Was anyone else there when Sylvia wrote the note?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Who else?

A. Stephanie.

Q. Who else?

A. Paula.

Q. Do you remember anybody else?

A. Johnny.

Q. Did Sylvia write the whole note?

A. Yes.

This is about a cigarette incident that Stephanie witnessed:

Q. Who was in the room when somebody put a cigarette out on her face?

A. Richard Hobbs, Randy Lepper, Anna Siscoe, Mike Monroe, Paula, Johnny, Jenny, Stephanie and Shirley and Jimmy. I was holding little Denny.

Q. Now, you said yesterday several things from the witness stand, Marie, and you have said something different today. Are you telling the truth today?

A. I am telling the truth today.

Q. Alright now, Marie, you said Sylvia ate breakfast with you, ate supper with the day before she died?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Are you sure about that?

This is Stephanie talking about tying Sylvia up...I don’t know how anyone can claim a person who tied a girl up is innocent.

Q. Why did you tie her?

A. Well, Mom said that she was wetting the bed and she wanted to make sure she did not go to the bathroom, and if she ever wet the bed again she could not go to the bathroom till she quit wetting the bed.

Q. Did she tell you what to do?

A. She said to tie her up. All the kids took her upstairs and Mom was standing by the door and I told Sylvia to put her hands this far apart and I wrapped it around her hands and about once or twice and put it under and took it down to the foot and wrapped it around her toe. I wrapped it around her leg and took it to the doorknob and tied it around the doorknob....
Q. Did you see Sylvia punished for wetting the bed?

A. No, just that she was not supposed to go to the bathroom.

Q. Why was she not supposed to go to the bathroom?

A. Mom said that she could not go to the bathroom till she learned not to wet the bed.

Q. So you tied her in bed to make her quit wetting the bed, till she quit wetting the bed and she could not go to the bathroom?

A. Yes, sir.

Jenny’s testimony that Stephanie definitely knew exactly what was going on.
Stephanie was present when Paula was rubbing salt in Sylvia’s wounds:

Q. Did you see anybody else other than Mrs. Baniszewski put anything on her wounds?

A. Paula did.

Q. When was this?

A. I'd say a week before she died.

Q. Where was this?

A. Upstairs in the bedroom.

Q. Who was present?

A. Paula and Gertrude and me and Stephanie. Stephanie was getting ready to go to the store. Paula was putting salt in her sores.

Q. Salt?

A. In her sores.

Stephanie participating in a scalding bath:

Q. Did you ever see anyone give Sylvia a bath?

A. Yes.

Q. When was this?

A. Oh, every other night.

Q. Were you present?

A. Well, I'd be standing in the bathroom and Stephanie told me to go to bed.

Q. What happened?

A. Well, I heard Sylvia screaming.

Q. Sylvia screaming?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you see how they gave her a bath?

A. Well, Gertrude would take her by her arms and Paula by the leg and put her in hot scalding water.

Q. How many times did this happen?

A. I could not answer that, too many times....

Continued...

A. Well, it was about a week, in the week before she died.

Q. And who was present?

A. Gertrude, me, Paula, Stephanie and Sylvia.

Q. What happened?

A. Gertrude turned on the hot water and held her head up under the faucet.

Q. How long did she hold it under the faucet?

A. I'd say three or four minutes.

Q. What did Sylvia do?

A. Screamed and tried to fight her way out of it.

Q. What else happened, if anything?

A. Well, when they got done with that she would stand there with her hair all wet.

Q. What was said, if anything?

A. I can't remember anything that was said.

More abuse from Stephanie:

Q. Did Stephanie Baniszewski ever do anything to Sylvia?

A. Yes.

Q. What?

A. Flip her and help put her in the tub of hot water. She hit her with her fist and the board....

Continued:

Q. And just what did you see Stephanie Baniszewski do to your sister? And when and where?

A. She flipped her in the living room.

Q. When was that?

A. In these two weeks, the last two weeks before her death.

Q. How many times did that happen?

A. I was upstairs some of the times but I'd say five or six times.

Q. I think you
also testified that Stephanie put your sister in some hot water, or words to that effect, did you testify to that?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. Just what did you see Stephanie Baniszewski do with reference to your sister and when and where, with reference to hot water?

A. She helped Gertrude and Paula shove her in the water but Gertrude took her under the arms and Paula took her legs and Stephanie just helped push a little bit.